Twilight hate is getting out of control.

Surgo · Post by **Surgo** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:58 pm

Ganbare Gincun wrote:
Crissa wrote:Technically, Bella accepting Edwards back is a horribly accurate representation of love and an abusive relationship.

-Crissa
And now it's the gold standard for young women all over America. Neat!

Oh, come on. Just because you like reading it in a story doesn't mean you like it in real life. It's a story, a fantasy.

As a friend of mine said about another vampire romance fantasy:
"If I saw <guy from True Blood> in real life, my first and only reaction would be to run screaming in the other direction. But in print, it's different."

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:20 am

Today, My brother turned to me and said "You know what I just realized, Harry Potter is about family, friends, truth, courage, justice, etc. and Twilight is about how important it is to have a boyfriend."

More truth to that than a lot of people want to think about.

Whatever Harry Potter's flaws, at least the message is aimed higher...

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:27 am

I thought Harry Potter was about Calvinism.

Starmaker · Post by **Starmaker** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:37 am

Harry Potter is racist. If you look closely, racism is The Truth: the fault of Voldemort et al is that they don't make exceptions for non-pedigree wizards (who are seriously freaks of nature: magic is hereditary). Real world is better than "you have to be born awesome" of many fucked-up empowerment fantasies which is in turn better than what's there in Harry Potter. Real life is two orders of magnitude better than Rowling's fantasy. That's like reading about Hitler conquering the Earth and turning every opponent into a pile of shit with his runic magic.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:56 am

While Harry Potter is amazingly classist, that's mostly a factor of it being British. Hermoine is totally a low-born character as well, and there's nothing wrong with her. She's the author's self insertion character.

Of course, it being British, her happy ending is that she gets to marry someone from the upper class who happens to be a nice guy. Which is a weird aspiration, but a much better one than Twilight.

-Username17

Starmaker · Post by **Starmaker** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:32 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:...her happy ending is that she gets to marry someone from the upper class who happens to be a nice guy. Which is a weird aspiration, but a much better one than Twilight.

Weird for a contemporary British person, sure. In Harry Potter's fucked-up world, Hermione's aspiration is totally logical and understandable. She's not an equivalent of a low-born modern or even medieval person who works her way towards the top, she's an equivalent of a noble's child stolen at birth. She actually belongs at the top.

Apparently, Hermione is forced to live a double life and lie to her parents. She wants to use her awesome abilities to the fullest and to not lie to her children. Assuming she can't break the masquerade or campaign to end segregation (not everyone has the guts - I don't), she's being very reasonable and sympathetic. Being Rowling's wish fulfillment character, Hermione gets a pedigree wizard as her husband - but not because she consciously set the goal. She just fell in love with a guy.

Hermione as a role model sucks only when transplanted to our world "as is" and taken at face value: "Hermione married a noble - you should, too". Hell no. Hermione married someone she would be comfortable living with. Most of the qualities she displays in the books are admirable. The problem is that under the guise of a better, magical world, Harry Potter presents a world that's objectively worse, and kids can't tell the difference.

Crissa · Post by **Crissa** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:15 pm

Why does Hermione have to lie to her parents?

-Crissa

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:30 pm

Crissa wrote:Why does Hermione have to lie to her parents?

-Crissa

She doesn't.

The parents of magical kids are allowed to know about the magic side of things, but they can't go around yelling it from the rooftops and shit. They show up one time, helping her with her shopping.

Hermione DOES eventually blank her parent's memories and make some false identities for them, so they'll be hard to find for anyone who'd like to hold them against her, but it's reversible.

Crissa · Post by **Crissa** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:31 am

Well, I've been only reading books after I get the movie, so maybe I'm not there yet. Having some crazed lunatic chasing after your family sure seems like something you don't wanna tell mom.

-Crissa

cthulhu · Post by **cthulhu** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:37 am

Maxus wrote:
Crissa wrote:Why does Hermione have to lie to her parents?

-Crissa
She doesn't.

The parents of magical kids are allowed to know about the magic side of things, but they can't go around yelling it from the rooftops and shit. They show up one time, helping her with her shopping.

Hermione DOES eventually blank her parent's memories and make some false identities for them, so they'll be hard to find for anyone who'd like to hold them against her, but it's reversible.

Yeah which is fair enough at that point because people are trying to liquidate her nazi style.

Parthenon · Post by **Parthenon** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:25 am

Doesn't Hermione every now and then lie to her parents by using magic instead of mundane methods then trick them into thinking that she didn't use magic. For example fixing her teeth by magic rather than her dentist parents doing so and then lying about it.

Doesn't that continue with the theme of a super-race of magic beings where they have more of a right to decide what to do: if I remember rightly Hermione changes their memories without their permission.

Sort of like wizards know more about what is going on and have more power so they can change muggles without consequences.

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:44 am

Parthenon wrote:Doesn't Hermione every now and then lie to her parents by using magic instead of mundane methods then trick them into thinking that she didn't use magic. For example fixing her teeth by magic rather than her dentist parents doing so and then lying about it.

Doesn't that continue with the theme of a super-race of magic beings where they have more of a right to decide what to do: if I remember rightly Hermione changes their memories without their permission.

Sort of like wizards know more about what is going on and have more power so they can change muggles without consequences.

As I recall, Hermione got hit with a curse that made her teeth keep growing. She got sent on down to first aid, and the nurse started shrinking them, and Hermione let her carry on a bit past what she'd started with.

Her parents HAD been wanting to get her to get braces (because they're both orthodontists), but she leveled with them about it, I think.

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 5:40 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:As in, seriously by Rick Warren, who is a vile scumbag who can now add "attempted mass murder" to his resume.

Rick Warren wrote:Dear fellow pastors in Uganda,

I greet you in the name and love of Jesus Christ as I send this encyclical video to the pastors of the churches of Uganda with greetings from your fellow pastors around the world. May grace and peace be with you this Christmas season.

We are all familiar with Edmund Burke's insight that, "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." That is why I'm sharing my heart with you today. As an American pastor, it is not my role to interfere with the politics of other nations, but it IS my role to speak out on moral issues. It is my role to shepherd other pastors who look to me for guidance, and it is my role to correct lies, errors, and false reports when others associate my name with a law that I had nothing to do with, completely oppose, and vigorously condemn. I am referring to the pending law under consideration by the Ugandan Parliament, known as the Anti-Homosexuality Bill.

As a pastor, I've found the most effective way to build consensus for social change is usually through direct quiet diplomacy and behind the scenes dialogue, rather than through media. But because I didn't rush to make a public statement, some erroneously concluded that I supported this terrible bill, and some even claimed I was a sponsor of the bill. You in Uganda know that is untrue.

I am releasing this video to you and your congregations to correct these untruths and to urge you to make a positive difference at this critical point in your nation.

While we can never deny or water down what God's Word clearly teaches about sexuality, at the same time the church must stand to protect the dignity of all individuals -- as Jesus did and commanded all of us to do.

Let me be clear that God's Word states that all sex outside of marriage is not what God intends. Jesus reaffirmed what Moses wrote that marriage is intended to be between one man and one woman committed to each other for life. Jesus also taught us that the greatest commandment is to love our neighbors as ourselves. Since God created all, and Jesus suffered and died for all, then we are to treat all with respect. The Great Commandment has been the centerpiece of my life and ministry for over 35 years.

Of course, there are thousands of evil laws enacted around the world and I cannot speak to pastors about every one of them, but I am taking the extraordinary step of speaking to you -- the pastors of Uganda and spiritual leaders of your nation -- for five reasons:

First, the potential law is unjust, extreme and un-Christian toward homosexuals, requiring the death penalty in some cases. If I am reading the proposed bill correctly, this law would also imprison anyone convicted of homosexual practice.

Second, the law would force pastors to report their pastoral conversations with homosexuals to authorities.

Third, it would have a chilling effect on your ministry to the hurting. As you know, in Africa, it is the churches that are bearing the primary burden of providing care for people infected with HIV/AIDS. If this bill passed, homosexuals who are HIV positive will be reluctant to seek or receive care, comfort and compassion from our churches out of fear of being reported. You and I know that the churches of Uganda are the truly caring communities where people receive hope and help, not condemnation.

Fourth, ALL life, no matter how humble or broken, whether unborn or dying, is precious to God. My wife Kay and I have devoted our lives and our ministry to saving the lives of people, including homosexuals, who are HIV positive. It would be inconsistent to save some lives and wish death on others. We're not just pro-life. We are whole life.

Finally, the freedom to make moral choices, and our right to free expression are gifts endowed by God. Uganda is a democratic country with a remarkable and wise people, and in a democracy everyone has a right to speak up. For these reasons, I urge you, the pastors of Uganda, to speak out against the proposed law.

My role, and the role of the PEACE Plan, whether in Uganda or any other country, is always pastoral, not political. I vigorously oppose anything that hinders the goals of the PEACE Plan: Promoting reconciliation, Equipping ethical leaders, Assisting the poor, Caring for the sick, and Educating the next generation, which includes the protection of children.

Please know that you and the people of Uganda are in my constant prayers. This Christmas season I pray you will experience the three purposes of Christmas as announced by the angel at the birth of Christ. First, the angel said, "I bring you good news of great joy." Christmas is a time of celebration -- Jesus is the Good News for the whole world. God came to earth to be with us! Next, the angel said, "For unto us is born this day a Savior, who is Christ the Lord!" Christmas is a time for salvation. If we didn't need a Savior, God would not have sent one. Finally, the angel said, "Peace on earth, good will toward men." Christmas is a time for reconciliation. The message of Christmas is good cheer, good news, and good will for the whole world.

It is my prayer that the churches and people of Uganda will experience all three of these this season. May God bless you; and may God bless the nation of Uganda.

Crissa · Post by **Crissa** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 8:21 pm

Yeah, it took him a week or so after being asked by journalists why he hadn't taken any steps since he was related to the organization which triggered the legislation.

-Crissa

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 8:32 pm

The fact that Rick Warren gave a mealy mouthed statement about how he was against the "Anti-Homosexuality Bill" after hounded by American journalists about his support for the "Kill The Gays Bill" doesn't mean a whole lot. He was for the bridge before he was against it.

And let's be clear: he pumps money to the groups that are pushing politics in that direction in Uganda. He has not stopped doing that. And yet, when it comes to condemn actual fucking genocide he says "it is not my role to interfere with the politics of other nations". Fuck him!

For the record, in that entire non-apology he never once actually condemns the bill. Here's the statement:

Rick Warren wrote:It is my role to shepherd other pastors who look to me for guidance, and it is my role to correct lies, errors, and false reports when others associate my name with a law that I had nothing to do with, completely oppose, and vigorously condemn. I am referring to the pending law under consideration by the Ugandan Parliament, known as the Anti-Homosexuality Bill.

The Bill is called the "Kill The Gays Bill" not the Anti-Homosexuality Bill. He wants every one of the pastors who look to him for guidance (and funding) that any report that he supports the "Anti-Homosexuality Bill" is false. He vigorously condemns it instead. But he's still funding the people supporting the "Kill The Gays Bill" because of course that's a different fucking bill.

Fucker.

-Username17

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 9:44 pm

Frank, please don't lie. It's unbecoming.

Martin Ssempa, a Ugandan pastor and former affiliate of Rick Warren (ties were severed in 2007), has endorsed the bill,[15] but Warren has publicly denounced the Bill, calling it "un-Christian."[16]

A Ugandan MP has proposed that lawmakers should create a new crime of "aggravated homosexuality", which would be punishable by death.

Ndorwa West MP David Bahati, of the ruling party, tabled the private member's bill in parliament on Tuesday.

According to his bill, those convicted of having gay sex with disabled people and those under the 18 would face the death penalty.

First off, it's not genocide. Only some homosexuals would be killed (and the same death penalty applies to heterosexuals who have sex with anyone under the age of 18. (Is that wrong? Yes. But don't overstate your position, please.)

Frank wrote:The Bill is called the "Kill The Gays Bill" not the Anti-Homosexuality Bill.

The bill, titled the Anti-Homosexuality Bill 2009, would give the same punishment to anyone infected with HIV who has sex with someone of the same gender.

Homosexual acts are already illegal, but the Anti-Homosexuality Bill proposes new offences and urges the toughening of existing penalties.

Earlier versions of the bill were widely criticised by rights groups.

Frank wrote:he never once actually condemns the bill

Rick Warren wrote:...I completely oppose, and vigorously condemn [the bill].

Crissa · Post by **Crissa** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 6:51 am

So, when you try to kill everyone, it isn't genocide, because... Not all gay people are under 18 or disabled?

-Crissa

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 6:55 am

From what I understand, Crissa, they're not killing disabled or under-18 gays, but rather applying the death penalty to people who have gay sex with disabled people and people under the age of 18.

Yeah, the law's still fucked up, based on the impetus to create it, at least.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 6:58 am

Just to be clear.

Having Aids counts as being disabled.

And the only way you can have Aids is to have had sex with someone with Aids.

This is fucking Uganda. Like, 40% of everyone has Aids anyway, and it's higher in the gay community.

PR, you are totally fucking wrong about "straight people would be killed for the same thing."

No. Straight people with Aids are not executed. Under this law, all gay people who have Aids are murdered. Yes. Murdered. Really. So no, shove your "Gay-Straight equivalency" in your fucking ass. And then get Aids, and then go to Uganda, and tell people you got aids from taking it up the ass. Have fun.

Ganbare Gincun · Post by **Ganbare Gincun** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:51 am

Rick Warren wrote:It is my role to shepherd other pastors who look to me for guidance, and it is my role to correct lies, errors, and false reports when others associate my name with a law that I had nothing to do with, completely oppose, and vigorously condemn. I am referring to the pending law under consideration by the Ugandan Parliament, known as the Anti-Homosexuality Bill.

Well, Rick Warren condemns it NOW because he's been caught with his pants down. I mean, who would have ever guessed that the Purpose of the Purpose Driven Life was to kill gays? Go figure.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:54 am

See, it isn't genocide because only 10% of the population is gay. If they were after the 0.8% of the population who was Jewish in 1933 Germany, then it would be genocide.

-Username17

tzor · Post by **tzor** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 4:21 pm

Psychic Robot wrote:Frank, please don't lie. It's unbecoming.

When it comes to attacking religion, Frank can be very Machiavellian. He won’t let a little thing like facts get in the way of his pre-conceived notions.

ubernoob · Post by **ubernoob** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 6:45 pm

tzor wrote:
Psychic Robot wrote:Frank, please don't lie. It's unbecoming.
When it comes to attacking religion, Frank can be very Machiavellian. He won’t let a little thing like facts get in the way of his pre-conceived notions.

You act like there isn't an abundance of concrete proof that organized religion is a detriment to the world as a whole.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 6:51 pm

ubernoob wrote:
tzor wrote:
Psychic Robot wrote:Frank, please don't lie. It's unbecoming.
When it comes to attacking religion, Frank can be very Machiavellian. He won’t let a little thing like facts get in the way of his pre-conceived notions.
You act like there isn't an abundance of concrete proof that organized religion is a detriment to the world as a whole.

What he's implying is that Frank doesn't even bother to use that evidence, but rather makes up evidence to support the claim at the time.

tzor · Post by **tzor** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:12 pm

ubernoob wrote:You act like there isn't an abundance of concrete proof that organized religion is a detriment to the world as a whole.

You act like there isn't an abundance of concrete proof that human beings are a detriment to the world as a whole.

So given this, what the fuck is the meaning of your reference to "organized religion." Are you implying that unorganized religon is so much the wonder place of peace, love, and happiness. Or is a lame attempt at guilt by association, implying that since everyone associates "organized" with "organized crime" that all religions are crooks.

And what the fuck does it have to do with the notion that if someone writes XYZ, you simply claim (1) they never worte XYZ (2) they didn't mean to write XYZ (3) they were pressured (from unknown forces) into writing XYZ becuse I am personally convinced that they do not believe in XYZ and that they are behind NOT XYZ.

Well nothing, other than some people just love to go on religion sucks arguments for days and weeks and months.